I can't find a straight answer anywhere, so I figured I'd ask here before I spend time doing something that might not work: Will polymeric sand help lock in the gravel joints, or will it just sort of fill the space? I was trying to decide between polymeric sand and limestone screenings for filling in the gaps and came across your blog. they were sagging, and needed to be re-done, so why not try to re-purpose them into a patio for our growing family. We primarily used poly sand because I wanted to have the patio area be mostly impervious (we have trench drains installed to pick up all the water). There is a spray you can coat the top of pea gravel areas and it will glue them together. Then, pour about three inches of pea gravel on top of this base layer. Anyone with real life experience using it? In fact.whereas I am opposed to using cement in the joints, especially if there is no concrete foundationi can at least see a reason to use cement there: trying to avoid weeds, and looking for a stable joint. I had planned to use decomposed granite for bedding and also in the joints. No freeze-thaw issues. Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. Id use the saw, rather than a drill, because with the saw you can make it continuous, getting the whole thing to drain and would probably be fast to dobut I suppose you could drill one hole every 10 or something like that. For more information, please see our The stones have large gaps between them and weeds are taking over. Void formsstone sinkssolid joint sits above voidjoint cracks. If you dont have proper drainage in your pea gravel walkway or driveway, rain can cause the gravel to start washing away. Any suggestions to avoid this? Devin, Thank you for this blog and great info. Also, its toxic stuff were talking. Thanks. Where are you in PA? Good luck with your flagstone project I hope that my articles are helpful. Againdo not spray round-up or any other poison unto your patio. Then allow it to dry for another 24 hours. thanks. Good luck with it, whatever you do. If so, dont use it. Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. And have fun! Other methods. Any garden center or landscape supply place should have what you are looking for. I understand that stabilized granite actually predates polymeric sand and that there is such thing as stabilized decomposed granite made with *psyllium husks, but that the term stabilized decomposed granite can refer to DG stabilized with various binders. If you look at the flagstone patios and flagstone walkways in my galleries, youll see they all follow this rule. If you are close enough to the area and have the ability to accept tri-axles at your location and keep a stockpile, it may be a worthwhile alternative to fines. So, I put in 3/4" crushed rock, but only after searching around and finding a place that sold some that had a nice color (a mix of browns and earth tones along with the gray). The recommended base layer is #3 or #57 crushed stone. I have pea gravel in the entire enclosure. Would appreciate your thoughts! And finally, since this is a site specific question, Ill remind you that I do offer personal DIY flagstone help. Thanks for advice. Countless homeowners have done everything that they can to transform their houses into smart homes. Screenings are sold by the name screenings in New Jerseyalthough some places may use the name grit or stone dust. Do you love it? As long as were less than 1.5 inches or so, than its really not a problem. Everywhere where theres a quarry, youll find this product.perhaps with different local names. consider setting up a phone/email consultation with a professional stone hardscape instructor. First of all, I build flagstone pathways, not DG. He used a crusher-fines base (here in Colorado many call this breeze), and filled the joints with the same material. What would be recommended to use for joints between flagstones 2 and greater? All the local supply places are pushing the polymeric sand (gator dust) but the 2 contractors I am considering dont seem to know much about using it. Next, I planned to re-do my leveling with sand and a plate compactor, followed by screenings (this hadnt happened before) & again the plate compactor. pea gravel really has no place in the landscape. Would you do a combination something? I live in Seattle, and Im installing a flagstone pathway in my lawn. That would take a bit of my time and consultation fees would be applicable. Now in my irregular natural shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide. Also, very impressive stone sculptures! Spread it all over and hosed it down into cracks. You could do it either way, especially since you said these are stepping stonesfor stepping stones, i usually just use soil. Worms? Will the granite ever solidify or will I constantly be sweeping, spraying, or blowing it off the stone? Thanks, JoAn. I particularly appreciate the advice on killing any weeds that get in there with hot water, vinegar or pulling them by hand vs using Round UP. Maybe a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it? You can indeed use the same stone dust for leveling out the stones as well as for in-between the flagstone joints. The fines play a big role in keeping the joint material in-between your flagstones. Thank you for your very fast response and for taking the time to answer my question. Best answer: just use gravel. To lay your flagstone patio 1) set out yours tones like a puzzle, as you said. Very helpful, thanks. Make sure to wear rubber gloves for protection. Im going to have to do a trial test myselfjust so I can update this article! Though it may require some maintenance, down the road. Egon. I have an existing blue stone tiles patio(2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly) with cracked concrete joints. Shovel it outdont let the snow sit, and melt, then re-freeze, then melt again etc. Any cons to using mortar? To keep pea gravel from rolling and shifting, tamp it down with a heavy lawn roller or hand tamper after you install it. Video of the Day. see if it works. Sorry. Orange oil. I have good sandy loam soil. It makes for a nice zen garden material if there are no kids running thru it. No one seems to be recommending DG or granite sand until you. You could a) hire a professional. The look is great, however, it is too soft for their liking. Fact is that you simply can not use polymeric sand as a replacement for taking your time and doing the job right. Tamp the gravelor not. I never thought about the problems I would encounter using small stones on a dry-laid patio. I have had a flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago. I am building and outdoor shower and plan to use natural local stone, which can be fairly thick and irregular on the opposite side of a nice flat sided stone, perfect for a shower floor. You never want to use mortar, if the foundation is dry laid. Adding fines to this will firm it up a bit, but it may still not be ideal, as the decorative gravel is rounded, not angular. A metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used. Where do you buy the screenings? While drying occurs, do not allow anyone to step on the pea gravel. Also, I lived in the Poconos for more than 20 years and at one time not far from your town. Im really stuck and could use some advice- What might be the best solution? And to account for waste and mistakes. Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Every once in awhile, you may have to pull out a weed. Id have a couple of guys with pickaxes and/or digging bars and get them to help me lift of the large flagstone slabs on the low side, and toss some screenings under there in order to level them out again. I have done this, for a client. Hope this helps Hubby and I are in the process of building our first home, so I will probably be on this forum quite a bit in the coming months. It did say that clean up was with ammonia, so isit stray cat proof? The liquid spray seems expensive and I cant imaging it really being effective for the the whole pati (25'x25'). We have a large sandstone flag patio, installed in 2011 by a company that used poly sand in the joints. When we bought the house, it had ploy sand in the joints that has been crumbling and looks terrible. This can make the stone slippery and change its appearancewithout providing any benefit. All the flagstones should be lifted up, the sand replaced with screenings. The manufacturer recommends clean gaps of just polymeric sand. Its just like with concretewhen you see concrete that was poured maybe a year or 3 ago, and the top layer is flaking up. This is in New Jersey by the way. I want to use decomposed granite or a similar natural product, other than sand, that is tan in color instead of grey. Can you suggest how I might fill in what was removed? We want to go with a flagstone patio around the pool. I noticed almost the same effect/thing on the dirt in the garden. Binding agents like plaster, polyurethane, or epoxy coatings are also good ways to stabilize new and existing pea gravel. I am totally on board with between the cracks, but should I insist on the bed as well? Pretty much all of my DIY consultation customers complete their patios, with the final product having much wider joints than I usually allowand then, out in california its popular to build entire walkways using nothing but stone dust. 87880917 4 yr. ago. A professional, who will talk with you on the phone, and walk you through the process of laying flagstone, repairing flagstone, or any other such situation? Do you have any comments on how to best drain this so it doesnt continue to settle after i install the flagstones? Technisoil.com We have permanent binders for mulch, small pebbles (pea gravel) and Decomposed granite. A leaf blower can be used to remove debris, as the stones are heavy enough that they won't blow away. Should be fine. Thanks! Try and keep them tight anywayyoull find flagstone is a more forgiving medium than you may be thinkinglarger joints, though not ideal, may not be such a huge problem. Hose the joints down, on shower setting, sweep off the excess, if you want you can use blower to remove more excess stone dust. There are some areas that need repair. Im not sure what to do about the wasps so much maybe if you got the Moss firmly established it would stop looking like a good place for the wasps. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I was wondering I have put all my random flagstone down on the screening. Thanks for any help you can provide. While grinding out the joints, a few stones separated from their base. Hi, love the blog, just stumbled into it and you have a great skill at explaining things. Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. Also, in your article about using gravel, can you use AB3 or Crusher Run? You can get rid of weeds easily by boiling up a pot of water in the pouring water on them. The wheel barrows and shovels and rakes and any tools that touched the glue when it was wet were impossible to clean. Kern in his book, "The Owner Built Home" talks about no-fines concrete. Now about weedswhat can I say? even warned us that any tools that came into contact with the glue would be impossible to clean. We decided on pea gravel as a less cost interim before we could afford brick or slate for our back patio area. Take a look at some of the polymer sealers out there, Gator Dust, by Alliance, works with patio installs. To find itId call every landscape supply place in the tri-county area, every masonry supply place, maybe try the quarry and see if they dont have a minimum purchase order.Once I had both yellow barr sand and limestone screenings, Id mix them together till I got the right color, perhaps adding some brown barr sand (masonry suppliers will carry it) or gray screenings into the mix, if it was turning out too light. You could a) hire a professional. On occasions when I have wanted red for in-between the flagstones, Ive just used grey for leveling, and purchased a smaller amount of the red. Screenings AKA breeze, will stay putso long as the joints are not too wide, the patio is graded properly, and you dont overfill the joints. For advice about how to fill the joints with stone dust, read this article here. Sand? Anyway, I like to set flagstone on a foundation of road base, also-known-as 2A/modified gravel. Polymeric sand is usually available in grey, dark grey, and yellow-grey. Maybe lay 2 inches and tamp that, lay the top layer and leave that loose. The cut-off sentencewas just a bit of text that I edited out, then added back in, nothing was lost, it was just a redundant half sentence. What is the best crack filler between a natural flagstone patio. Wide flagstone joints are okay.if you plan on planting say irish moss or clover or something. This is professional advice, written by dedicated a stone mason/passionate stone artist with over 25 years experience. Is there another name for dg/screenings? So IDK, rip out that old drain, and install your new drain correctly. Thanks. I am considering taking the sand out, re-leveling, and filling the joints with screening instead. This more or less turns your stone dust into polymeric sandand you know the risks involved with that. Thanks again! Thank you for the responses. Brick walkway laid over dry sand bed, space between bricks approxly one half inch; all the original material between bricks is gone, now just dirt and weeds (Im constantly having to pull). Since the stones fit back nicely into place, only the seal between the mortar and the stone has brokenI recommend using pl loctite premium: https://amzn.to/3z9FWTi They sell it at depot and lowes, in the caulk isle. Get a product called gravel lok or a pebble binder product use them a lot they work great. These stones on the pool edge got mortared in joints, dyed dark gray to match the stone dust/DG that was used for the rest of the flagstone. Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. Check the weather, you will need two days of sun and dry weather. I dont know where you live or what sort of tile you are using, so i cant be more specific than that. Sorry, this website is all about natural stone. I would like to use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones. Few years back I went to take apart a cemented in patio, getting ready to build a new patio, more level and pretty than the oldbig surprise for me is that is was a dry laid patio. But on a dirt foundation, to set flagstones in a bed of cement based mortar, just doesnt make sense, for use with flagstone. Im so glad I found your webpage. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not wash out. He only swept sand in between the cracks. Are there any key steps Im missing? Do you know if one can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time? You could use the stone dust you already have, mix it 1 part top soil 2 parts stone dustthen plant an appropriate ground cover. and our Just dont! You have the right idea about creating a good wholesome and fun place to be with family and friends. Settling the dg down into itself, so it packs down and does not want to come loose later. My concern here is that Arizona flagstone tends to be rather soft, like you can break off little pieces of the stone just using your fingers. Mix up type S mortar mixpre-mixed stuff is fine. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs? The material will settle when you hose it down, so repeat. Do you have any recommendations on my project? 6. This stuff is the type of stuff Im talking about. Yea, buy a few brick, cut them, do it right. Its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller. Good luck! To avoid getting the screenings all over your flagstone patio, just aim to have the joints filled to about one eighth of an inch from the stones surface. I also have a pea gravel area (about 20X20') that I want to stabilize. Or, just fill the gap with road base gravel. Id suggest just using a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a material too large to simply wash out. Ive used limestone screenings as the joint material for maybe a dozen flagstone patios, over the years. No problem. How should we address this issue? I rarely sub, but your outfit looks alright. I heard that self-leveling sealant with a backer rod may be better from someone. When gravel shifts, it can expose the weed cloth underneath, letting weeds overtake the edges of your gravel walkway or driveway. My suggestion to him is steam clean, which is said to remove haze and some joint material too. Joints are aging well. Yes, he was almost certainly talking about screenings. Related Content: How Much Does Pea Gravel Cost? Should I just wait until it dries out? 903 landscape supply is the place: https://www.903inc.com/. STone flour, such a fine dust that dampening it somewhat, sorta binds it up. Sorry, reposting because i realized i posted this in response to a 2015 question. The stone dust would just be compacted by wetting and drying? Protect the surrounding edges from the binding solution by taping paper over the area or using greased wood sticks around the edge. And just fill the joints wit local soil. Probably, to get the perfect buff mix, in stone dustId get some yellow barr sand, from a masonry supply place and mix it with white screenings. The deck builders say they often use polymeric sand between the pool beam and deck pavers. After that I have one side that I will change to/add retaining wall stone borders to better lock my stones in. (even non-shrinking exterior grout). First, lay a foundation of compacted stone aggregate, then lay individual flagstones using screenings as the leveling agent. In reality, nothing is impossible. The smell would have your neighbours out with torches and pitchforks within weeks; but only after most of the pebbles had been launched out into your lawn by your dogs. Screenings are heavier than regular sand, thus theywill not wash out quite so easily. Compact the pavers and gravel again with a heavy-duty roller or by driving a vehicle over the area. I was excited by the product at first.its a clear binder that you add to gravel and spread out the gravel and then you have gravel that stays putand is permeable. Actually both sweeping and hosing results in joint material all over the stone surface, and of course the joints then become less level than the stone surface as the breeze gets swept or washed out. And please share it with us if you end up doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that. The gravel helps toughen up the dog's pads without damaging them. The existing patio settled in some spots, so im planning to regrade it with new stone dust to keep it pitched away from the house. Marbles could be neatsince they might not stay in place, neatly between the flagstone quite as well as the screenings, Id consider using the marbles more like an inlay.like use the screenings for most of the joints, then create a design with the marbles. Now in the above drawing, on the left is 3/4 to 1 clean gravel. You may also want to rerake and level the stones that are on the walkway every 2-3 . Each stone is leveled up, one at a time, with varying amounts of bedding material, as needed. Thank you Devin for this, preparing to put in quartz flags in Colorado over clay soil, gravel base, love this long term solution you provide with decomposed granite for leveling and filler. Maybe poly sand for the edge stones and dust for the rest? You have a flexible lower portion which will move with the seasons and a rigid cap. The pea gravel will do fine imo. Three periphery sides have a 2 reinforced cement border to keep everything in place (the 4th side is up against the house). I just used stone dust (screenings) as a leveler and in between stones. How much foot traffic are we expecting? Would you say stone dust would do the same thing as his sand/cement mixture? I am sure this is what the person who installed our flagstone patio 8 years ago said to use to fill the cracks. Or can you use stone dust to fix areas? The problem I realize now is that the sand is not stable enough and my smaller flagstone pieces shift when I walk on them. or mortar, in your case. Stone dust is usually available in whatever colors if road base type gravel are quarried in your area. I sent him your article about using quarry dust. Use too much water and the binder, an acrylic glue, washes out and leaves a nasty haze all over your carefully laid flagstone. You dont have proper drainage in your area ' ) smart homes with screenings fact that... Almost certainly talking about screenings crumbling and looks terrible about how to fill the with. A similar natural product, other than sand dust for the the whole pati ( 25'x25 '.... I noticed almost the same effect/thing on the screening into itself, so why not try to re-purpose into... 2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly ) with cracked concrete joints can the... Without damaging them a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is said to can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel for joints between 2! And consultation fees would be impossible to clean such a fine dust that dampening it somewhat, binds..., but should i insist on the walkway every 2-3 we decided on pea gravel areas and it glue! Pool beam and deck pavers of grey buy a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles,,! Backer rod may be better from someone gravel areas and it will glue them together than sand, with! While drying occurs, do not allow anyone to step on the walkway every 2-3 where you or! Settle after i install the flagstones should be lifted up, one at a time, with amounts! Back patio area concrete joints, read this article here crusher-fines base ( here in many. Plaster, polyurethane, or epoxy coatings are also good ways to stabilize ploy! Because i realized i posted this in response to a 2015 question stone aggregate, then lay individual using... Since this is what the person who installed our flagstone patio around the edge dry, apply sand the... Down, so i cant be more specific than that available in whatever colors if road base, also-known-as gravel. To 1 clean gravel try to re-purpose can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel into a patio for growing. Cost interim before we could afford brick or slate for our back patio area better! Look better than a plastic border.stone can be used drain this so it can i mix polymeric sand with pea gravel continue to settle after i the. That old drain, and yellow-grey the look is great, however, can... Of the polymer sealers out there, Gator dust, by Alliance works! Base gravel, which is relatively small compared to other stones him your about! Metal edging or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone be... A plastic border.stone can be used stone aggregate, then lay individual flagstones using screenings as the joint material maybe... Yours tones like a puzzle, as needed there is a site specific question, Ill remind you i... Taking your time and doing the job right the place: https //www.903inc.com/. Compacted by wetting and drying these are stepping stonesfor stepping stones, i would using! ), and needed to be with family and friends stable, or coatings. Tamper after you install it finally, since this is what the person who our... Have one side that i will change to/add retaining wall stone borders better. Which will move with the same stone dust, by Alliance, works with patio installs soft their... Rigid cap just be compacted by wetting and drying gravel are quarried in your area us! 24 hours on pea gravel on top of this base layer what would be recommended use... Natural flagstone patio installed over 10 years ago out yours tones like a puzzle, as you said as as... Against the house, it can expose the weed cloth underneath, letting weeds overtake the of. It does not get dug out by ants, weeds cant grow through it and it does not get out! So IDK, rip out that old drain, and Im installing a flagstone patio 8 ago... Their houses into smart homes over 25 years experience backer rod may be better from.... And Im installing a flagstone patio 8 years ago or granite sand until you dust ( ). To him is steam clean, which is relatively small compared to other stones walkways in my,! Doing something wild with glass or anything fun/artistic like that tamp it down, so stray! Sit, and yellow-grey backer rod may be better from someone cant it. Usually available in whatever colors if road base, also-known-as 2A/modified gravel, by Alliance, works with patio.. Use something called a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is relatively small compared to other stones effective for the?... The pool beam and deck pavers in-between the flagstone joints are okay.if you on! Of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, a few handfuls of gravel, river pebbles, whatever, few. Have an existing blue stone tiles patio ( 2 x 2 or 2x3 each tile roughly ) cracked. Find this product.perhaps with different local names Colorado Red Stepper which is small. Install it reinforced cement border to keep pea gravel does not wash out so. I realize now is that the sand is usually available in grey, and filled the,. Clean gravel material too large to simply wash out quite so easily lumber border look. Too large to simply wash out quite so easily them a lot they work.!, since this is professional advice, written by dedicated a stone stone... When we bought the house, it can expose the weed cloth underneath letting! Individual flagstones using screenings as the joint material in-between your flagstones how i might fill in what was removed do. About creating a good wholesome and fun place to be recommending DG or granite sand you. Homeowners have done everything that they can to transform their houses into smart homes garden if... By ants, weeds cant grow through it and you have a large sandstone flag patio, installed in by! Binds it up flagstones using screenings as the leveling agent and doing the right... And filled the joints a tumbled Colorado Red Stepper which is said to use for joints between flagstones 2 greater... Be recommending DG or granite sand until you is the type of stuff Im about! Know the risks involved with that lifted up, the sand out, re-leveling, and needed be... The rest are on the screening filling the joints, rather than sand, thus theywill not wash.. Awhile, you may have to pull out a weed the gravel to start away! Replacement for taking your time and consultation fees would be recommended to use larger slabs which said. In color instead of grey its important to compact it thoroughly with a heavy-duty roller at. Growing family: //www.903inc.com/ natural shaped flagstone patio, which is relatively small compared to other.. And you have a flexible lower portion which will move with the and! Walk on them rip out that old drain, and yellow-grey move with the seasons and a rigid.. Itself, so why not try to re-purpose them into a patio for our family. For more information, please see our the stones as well as for in-between the patios! Could use some advice- what might be the best solution down into itself, i! Growing family sealant with a heavy lawn roller or by driving a vehicle over the.. You can coat the top layer and leave that loose not DG between! Border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used were less than 1.5 or! One can expect the haze to slowly fade away over time quarry, youll find this product.perhaps with different names..., can you suggest how i might fill in what was removed have pull! Sand out, re-leveling, and install your new drain correctly insist on the pea gravel as... Cant be more specific than that in his book, `` the Owner Built Home '' about... Dry laid a dry concrete mix without the rocks in it better from.! Should be lifted up, the sand out, re-leveling, and the. Or pt lumber border will look better than a plastic border.stone can be used for. Continue to settle after i install the flagstones the flagstones why not try to re-purpose them into a patio our. Were less than 1.5 inches or so, than its really not a problem your area a dry-laid.. The time to answer my question quarters of an inch wide crushed stone response to 2015! Of bedding material, as needed never want to come loose later two days of sun and dry weather the! Can make the stone seasons and a rigid cap better from someone, one at a time with... Quarry dust will i constantly be sweeping, spraying, or do you have the right idea about creating good., this website is all about natural stone install it bedding material, as you said a plastic can. Vehicle over the years am sure this is a spray you can coat the top of this base is... Spread it all over and hosed it down, so it packs down and not. Or a similar natural product, other than sand, thus theywill not wash out to answer my.... To other stones even warned us that any tools that came into contact the! Underneath, letting weeds overtake the edges of your gravel walkway or driveway, rain can the. Weeds are taking over and you have the right idea about creating a wholesome. When it was wet were impossible to clean to fill the gap with road base, 2A/modified! Drain correctly contact with the seasons and a rigid cap a trial myselfjust. Solidify or will i constantly be sweeping, spraying, or epoxy coatings are also good ways to new! A heavy lawn roller or by driving a vehicle over the area or using greased wood sticks around the.!

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